Its all Possible Podcast – How to get people to like you

Rob Hartnett

January 1, 2021

Rob Hartnett:

Hi, I’m Rob Hartnett, and welcome possibility seekers to the It’s All Possible Podcast. Today we’re chatting with international bestselling author, Nicholas Boothman. This is actually an interview I did a few years back around Nick’s book, How to Make People Like You in 90 Seconds or Less. And it’s such a great interview because the fundamentals that Nick talked about back then are so relevant for today. So, let’s get into it. Enjoy.

Rob Hartnett:

Hey, Nick. Rob Hartnett.

Nicholas Boothman:

Hey there. How are you?

Rob Hartnett:

Hey, good. Okay. Welcome to the show.

Nicholas Boothman:

Great to be with you.

Rob Hartnett:

Fantastic. Now, is this your first podcast interview at all, Nick?

Nicholas Boothman:

My first podcast interview, although I have to tell you that I discovered only yesterday that my first book, How to Make People Like You in 90 Seconds or Less has been the number two bestselling download from the Apple site for five weeks.

Rob Hartnett:

From the iTunes site, was it?

Nicholas Boothman:

From the iTunes site. I didn’t know. I’m above the Da Vinci Code.

Rob Hartnett:

Oh, well done. That’s fantastic. Well, I tell you what, it’s a great book. I mean, I read the book a few months, six months ago now, I just loved it and I thought it really hit the spot. And so, let’s have a chat about some of the things you’ve spoken in that book and also How to Connect in Business, which is the other book as well.

Nicholas Boothman:

Sure.

Rob Hartnett:

One of the things you talk about in magazine ads, because you were a professional photographer, was having less than two seconds to connect to a reader in an advertisement. Tell us a bit more about that. How does an ad connect in two seconds or less?

Nicholas Boothman:

Yeah. Just so I can clarify. I was actually a fashion and advertising photographer for about 25 years. And I can put it in even better terms that your listeners will understand. I’m in Canada, but here in Canada, one of the universities, the University of Dalhousie just checked to see how long it takes … In fact, let me ask you. How long do you think it takes when you’re surfing the web to be attracted by a website?

Rob Hartnett:

Well, to me, I work on the eight-second rule.

Nicholas Boothman:

They’ve discovered it’s a 20th of a second.

Rob Hartnett:

A 20th of a second?

Nicholas Boothman:

You can find the research is Dalhousie University in Halifax.

Rob Hartnett:

Wow.

Nicholas Boothman:

Yeah. A 20th of the second. We make split-second timing if something is of interest to us. We know, for example, from research done by the Harvard School of Health Sciences, that we decide how we feel about people in the first two seconds of seeing them. We make instinctive appraisal very quickly, and it’s done through one of our three brains. Anyone who’s read Emotional Intelligence knows well, by now, that we actually have three brains, not one. One is the reptilian brain, which is completely involuntary. And that is actually responsible for the fight or flight response, or the visual tracking, and for the startle reflex. And then we have two other brains, which maybe we can talk about later.

Nicholas Boothman:

But that works very quickly. And in fact, that’s how we appraise people. That’s how we appraise websites. We use it through our reptilian brain. And that’s how, in advertising, unless it’s something of specific interest to you, in fact, what you’re doing when you’re looking through a magazine is looking for things that are of interest to you. And so, to capture someone’s attention in what I did, which was photographing people, my picture would have to be filled with a certain amount of innuendo from body language and facial expression.

Rob Hartnett:

Right. Right. Yeah. That’s really interesting. And we’ll chat a little bit later on about the other two brains. Now, you work with the great Dr. Bandler, what was that like?

Nicholas Boothman:

Do you want the truth or do you want me to tell you what you want to hear?

Rob Hartnett:

Well, that’s interesting. I imagine we’ve heard about Dr. Bandler through NLP and I imagined straight away the both of you mirroring each other. How do you work and what was he like to work with. What were the highlights? What are the highlights? Keep it nice.

Nicholas Boothman:

He doesn’t work that way. He delivers everything in story form. He appears to be rambling all over the place, except that when you’ve finished, certain things, he’s explained things through stories. It’s all stories. He’s explained things through stories that change the way you look at things. He does what’s called analog marking and most speakers do analog marking, whether they call it that or not, which is you use certain gestures once or twice with the words. And then after that, you don’t use the words anymore, you just use the gestures.

Rob Hartnett:

Correct.

Nicholas Boothman:

He does quite a lot of that. He’s an interesting character. I mean, for those of you who do or don’t know him, he dresses up like the biker from hell, and he’s a sort of cross between Jesus and Rasputin, I think, the way he looks at people and the way he dresses. And he appears to be intolerant, but I don’t think he is. He’s done some phenomenal work. I think he’s changed the way we all are.

Nicholas Boothman:

But you know something? The thing about NLP is that I get asked quite often about NLP and I say to people, “It’s a tool really.” And I use it for two things. One, because I talk a lot about the language we use to talk to ourselves. In other words, literally how we use language to program our neurology. And the other thing I use it for, which is what it was originally used for, was modeling excellence. It allows you to find someone who’s really good at doing something and figure out how they do it. Because chances are, if you ask somebody who’s brilliant at something how they do it, they’ll just say, “I don’t know. I just do it.”

Rob Hartnett:

Yeah, exactly. For someone who’s a natural … That’s a good point. And that’s how I came across it through a chosen sport was through exactly that circumstance.

Nicholas Boothman:

Yeah. Yeah. And really that’s what it’s all about. So, it’s a tool. And if people say to me, “Well, I want to do my NLP,” I’ll think that’s terrific, but what for?

Rob Hartnett:

Yes, exactly. What’s the why?

Nicholas Boothman:

What are you going to do with it?

Rob Hartnett:

NLP’s the how and way.

Nicholas Boothman:

Well, yes. And that is the big word in NLP. How do you do something, not why do you do it? Nobody really cares why you do it but they want to know how you do it. And so, that’s what I did in my first book, How to Make People Like You, we looked to people who could connect with other people in general situations. It was so popular. We did one on business, which is very different because in business … well and socially, you can walk away from relationships, but in business, you can’t walk away from relationships without probably walking away from your job.

Nicholas Boothman:

And in the third book, How to Make Someone Love you Forever, which is a book I’m very, very proud of, we looked at almost 2000 people who’d been married for more than 20 years and were still crazy about each other and figured out what they … We modeled excellence. We figured out what the common threads were and then compared it to a test group who consistently mess up in relationships.

Rob Hartnett:

Wow. Now, interestingly enough, you talk about married for 20 years. We’re in the year of the baby boomer as well. And especially, in Australia, down under, and other countries as well, we’ve got this aging population. You made a comment in the book, in the first one, How to Make People Like You in 90 Seconds or Less, the comment you made was that people who connect better live longer, can you explain more on that?

Nicholas Boothman:

Absolutely. Yeah, I will. And all the data is there in the book. Incidentally, my books are all about showing and not telling. They’re full of stories and a book written by a photographer that you can see what things look like. Absolutely. Dr. Lisa Berkman did a study. It’s called the Alameda County Study. It was done in Alameda County, in California in which they looked at 7,000 people over nine years aged between 35 and 65. And regardless of whether they smoked, they drank, of their lifestyle, they looked at this … this is a huge group to look at.

Rob Hartnett:

It’s amazing.

Nicholas Boothman:

And they discovered that people who did not actively socialize and create new relationships, those who did not, were three times more likely to die of medical illness than the people who did. The reason is actually quite simple. And in fact, if any of your listeners have seen that movie with Tom Hanks, Cast Away, well, he was on an island deprived of feedback from other people because it’s feedback … more than 72 hours without feedback, physical and spoken, and any kind of feedback from other people, our body rhythms start going into … well, we call it diseased, or they become chaotic. In the movie, he kept his sanity by inventing a character out of a basketball called Wilson, and he superimposed a personality onto it and it kept him sane. So absolutely, we need to connect with other people in order to balance our body rhythms, et cetera.

Nicholas Boothman:

In fact, one of the things I talked about in my talks, at the end, I say, “We can’t live without each other. Why do you think children in orphanages and certain parts of the world who have a roof over their head, with enough food are dying mysteriously?” It’s because they have no feedback from other people. They don’t get hugs, they don’t get people listening to them. And their bodies just curl up.

Rob Hartnett:

Nick, I just going to ask you about children. Do you see a lot of children also invent characters and talk to characters a lot, and invent characters, whether it’s a Teddy bear or something that they have as well? Is that part of trying to invent that feedback?

Nicholas Boothman:

Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. I like to say to the audience that we are born … first of all we’re all born with phenomenal people skills, which is absolutely true. Babies do everything right. But we’re also born with what I like to call three superpowers. And by superpowers, I don’t mean things like Superman, like jumping over buildings, because we have machines that do that. I mean things that machines can’t do. We are all born with enthusiasm, which is a superpower. Otherwise, we’d never have made it out. We’re all born with curiosity, which is in all of us. In many people, it gets lost in their formative years by often well-meaning other people who say things like, “Don’t talk to strangers. Why do you ask so many questions??

Nicholas Boothman:

And the third superpower is empathy. We’re all born with empathy. One-day old babies cry when they hear other babies cry. What’s that all about? And so, this longing to empathize with others is absolutely fundamental to regulating our body rhythms.

Rob Hartnett:

Yeah. It’s fantastic. Those three are great. Enthusiasm, curiosity, and empathy. It’s amazing, isn’t it? You do see that so much in young children before they will get changed.

Nicholas Boothman:

Well, they don’t all get changed, but some do. That’s what we found in the first book when we modeled excellence. We found that some people, their natural superpowers got stomped on, again by well-meaning people, by the time they reached puberty. In other words, by the time they learn to think, without thinking. We go into the world and we basically do six things. Five of them is we use our senses, we see, we hear, we feel, we touch, the taste, et cetera. The only other thing we do is put our experiences into words. We process language. Really, that’s what NLP is about. We learn to explain our experiences to ourselves and then to explain them to other people.

Nicholas Boothman:

But what happens is we develop a style of doing it. Some people develop a positive style, and some people develop a negative style. They’re both valid, but it’s the half full/ half empty cup thing. And in business, which is what we’re talking about, people who develop what I call a positive explanatory style. I don’t call it, it’s what it’s referred to. But people who develop a positive explanatory style, in other words, they wake up in the morning and it’s raining, and they say, “Ooh, free car wash, good for the garden,” whatever. As opposed to someone who wakes up in the morning, sees it’s raining, “Err it’s raining. It’s going to be another lousy day.” Someone with a positive explanatory style is great for sales because these people tend to be very good at spotting opportunities. People with a negative explanatory style tend to be very good at management or even CEOs because they become very good at spotting problems. And in a way, optimists make great salespeople, but be very careful.

Rob Hartnett:

Yes. Exactly.

Nicholas Boothman:

Pessimists make great CEOs but optimists make bad CEOs. Pessimists make good CEOs. Optimists, you don’t want an optimist as a CEO. You don’t really want your airline pilot, your dentist, your doctor, and your accountant to be eternal optimists. You want them to be people who are more interested in reason and logic and caution.

Rob Hartnett:

Yes. But we both need both of those, I guess, in a company to be successful. Yeah.

Nicholas Boothman:

Exactly. Each is one hand clapping.

Rob Hartnett:

And there’s a find for small businesses, you’ve got to wear both those hats. Especially when you’re starting off if you’re in a home-based business. We have a few of our listeners who are small business owners and that’s really interesting, the hats you do wear as a small business owner.

Nicholas Boothman:

That is an absolutely fantastic observation. You’re absolutely right.

Rob Hartnett:

Nick, 90 seconds. How did you come up with 90 seconds? Was it a ballpark? Was it actually through analysis? And I guess there’s other circumstances like we talked about with the magazine ad. And I guess as a speaker because you were talking about speaking as well, when you walk up on stage is it 90 seconds, or is it a lot less at that point?

Nicholas Boothman:

It’s all a lot less. It’s two seconds. However, if I’d have brought out a book called how to make people like you … Look, I had enough trouble with people when I said how to make people like you in 90 seconds or less. They said, “Yeah. Right.” It’s actually two seconds. The first two seconds has everything because it is one reptilian brain, one unconscious set of signals going to another person. There are some very simple things that happen in those few moments. In the first part of your question, which is in basic face to face communications, in our society, in our culture, not in everyone else’s, but in our culture, there are things that we do in the first two seconds.

Nicholas Boothman:

The number one thing we can do is adjust your attitude. Because I mentioned earlier, we have three brains. Our second brain is called our limbic system. Our limbic system is where our emotions come from. It is responsible for empathy. We pick up from other people’s signals, which is our tendency to synchronize with the signals from other people. In other words, if someone’s angry it makes you feel uncomfortable. If they’re happy, it makes you feel good. And so, when you adjust your attitude, the great thing … here’s the great thing. Here’s the soundbite about attitude. Your attitude drives their behavior.

Rob Hartnett:

Right. Right. And I’ve seen that with team leaders, especially in team managers. I guess the other thing I’d like to run off you with that, open-plan offices, do you think it has a … in my experience, see that really occurring in open-plan offices, if there’s a CEO or a leader comes in with that kind of attitude, any particular day, it just rubs off on the rest.

Nicholas Boothman:

Yeah. Well, absolutely. I mean, I guess there are upsides to it and there are downsides to it. It’s not my preference. But I spend my time writing and speaking. But getting back for a second about making presentations, which was the second part of your question going on stage. Yeah, I always believe that you have to get the audience. Look, if I don’t get my audience in the first 10 seconds, they have every right to throw their lunch at me and run for the door. Because we absolutely set the mood. And we set it with attitude and speaking. You set it with your energy level.

Nicholas Boothman:

You know something? People know. The moment someone steps on stage, they know. Their reptilian brain is saying, “This is probably going to be good. Or how far is it to the door?”

Rob Hartnett:

Yeah. Yeah. And when’s lunch? Yeah.

Nicholas Boothman:

Yep.

Rob Hartnett:

When can I leave? The attitude thing was, there’s a good one I noticed was looking at some stuff from Zig Ziglar, the motivational speaker from the US, he’s got a great saying, which is, “Now, your attitude determines your altitude.” And I guess your thoughts are very similar to that.

Nicholas Boothman:

Well, yeah, it’s a very cute phrase, I guess. By altitude, he means how high are you going to go? Absolutely. Look, your attitude, face-to-face communication, as I’m sure everybody knows by now because of the famous study that was done by Albert Mehrabian called Decoding inconsistent communication, is that 55% of all face-to-face communication comes from what people see, 38% comes from the tone of your voice, and 7% comes from the words you use. Whether those percentages are completely accurate, I have no idea, but they do line up that way. Because if you’re standing in front of an audience or anybody and you look angry, no matter what you’re saying, or you look bored, what they’ll take from it is that you’re bored. No matter what your words are saying.

Rob Hartnett:

Yes. Correct.

Nicholas Boothman:

You’re on the phone and you’ve got a crummy voice tone, but you’re saying nice things. People will believe your voice tone over the words you use. So, in fact, go flick an email. In fact, I think you and I had a slight misunderstanding earlier when you sent me something that was … you said you were just joking-

Rob Hartnett:

It was in jest, yes.

Nicholas Boothman:

But I didn’t see you were joking until you told me.

Rob Hartnett:

That’s right. That’s right. Yeah.

Nicholas Boothman:

Because, “Go figure email,” is what I tell everybody. Email is devoid of voice tone. It’s devoid of body language. If you say to somebody in an email, “You drive me crazy.” They don’t know if it means you make me mad, you make me happy, you make me fantasize, or I’m falling in love with you. You have no idea because there’s no voice tone [crosstalk 00:17:03].

Rob Hartnett:

It is dangerous, isn’t it, email, if you’re relying upon it just on your own. It’s a dangerous area.

Nicholas Boothman:

Oh, absolutely. You have to strip your language right down in an email.

Rob Hartnett:

That’s right. Nick, you’ve got to run off to a speaking engagement, the popular man you are. Finally, you talked about a third book I’ve mentioned too, the third book. You’ve got a third book coming out?

Nicholas Boothman:

Well, my third book is my love book which I don’t actually promote very much. That was my most recent book, How to Make Someone Love You Forever in 90 Minutes or Less, which is a very provocative title and people say, “Oh yeah. Right. No.” But the point of the book is when we looked at … because my wife and I, we’ve been married for 35 years. And it was a second marriage for both of us. But we looked at almost 2000 people who’d been married for more than 20 years. And we found some really simple things. And we also looked at divorce. The number one reason for divorce in the world is that you married the wrong person in the first place. It seems like a no-brainer. So, in this book, we looked at, “Fine. In that case, who is the right person?” And the fact is when you find the right person, it doesn’t actually take even 90 minutes to fall in love or to sow the seeds of love. So, a lot of the book is about finding the right person.

Nicholas Boothman:

I’m now working on a series of three more books, but they won’t be out until 2007 or eight, on second impressions. Because fine, you’ve appeared in front of someone. They feel disposed to trust you because when people like you, they see the best in you. If they don’t like you, they see the worst in you. And they look for opportunities to say yes when they like you. So, you’ve arrived in someone, you’ve said all the right stuff. There you are. And so, now what? And so, this is about what to do, and how to become top of mind, how to move people in very, very simple ways.

Nicholas Boothman:

Those will be out soon in about two years.

Rob Hartnett:

Fantastic. Now, where are you speaking internationally, Nick? Where are you off to in the next month or so?

Nicholas Boothman:

I’m doing stuff. I do a lot in the States. I’m doing a lot in Europe. Today I’m speaking in Canada to a bank. I do a lot of financial institutions. I do a lot of hotel chains all over the place. Actually, my website, if I could give my website [crosstalk 00:19:21].

Rob Hartnett:

Sure, absolutely.

Nicholas Boothman:

Just my name, nicholasboothman.com, where people can go and they can get information about the methodology that we use in all of this. And there’s some free stuff on there including one page of over a hundred great ways to guarantee you’ll stay single forever.

Rob Hartnett:

Yeah. That sounds fantastic, Nick. It’s been fantastic talking to you. Absolutely brilliant.

Nicholas Boothman:

My pleasure. I’m honored to be on your show.

Rob Hartnett:

Yeah. Really, really enjoyable. We’ll hope to have you maybe up again. Next time get to meet you in person, it’d be fantastic. But all the touring you’re doing, I’m sure our listeners all around the world will get to see you in person as well, which will get to the three elements of the visual, auditory, and hear your words as well.

Nicholas Boothman:

Yeah. The kinesthetic. Yeah. Well, I was in Australia twice recently. I just did a three-city tour. Last month I was in Brisbane, then whizzed across to Perth, and then whizzed back to Sydney. And had a great time. Yep.

Rob Hartnett:

Great.

Nicholas Boothman:

So, be back soon I hope.

Rob Hartnett:

Fantastic. All right, Nick, that’s great to have you on the show, and good luck with your next engagement.

Nicholas Boothman:

My pleasure. Thanks a lot.

Rob Hartnett:

Thanks.

 

Rob Hartnett

Rob Hartnett

Author and Founder of The Hartnett Group

In his earlier career, Rob worked in senior management roles at Apple Computer and Hewlett-Packard, where he won the coveted Asia Pacific High Achiever Award. Rob became the number one sales consultant for the worlds number one sales performance company Miller Heiman Group twice and a Presidents Club winner 9 times. Today he is an independent Executive Director of the John Maxwell Team. Rob is known as an inspirational and entertaining speaker on leadership, sales & mindset.

Related Articles

Pivoting with Possibility
Pivoting with Possibility

Positive Thinking is great but Positive Action through Pivoting is better. Here are how some of my clients are “pivoting with positivity” in these challenging times.

read more
Change Your Words, Change Your World
Change Your Words, Change Your World

Late last year two good friends of mine lost their jobs. Both were in senior executive roles, had high credibility and I trust them implicitly. But words make a big difference in how they explained their situations:

Executive 1: ‘I was made redundant this week’.

Executive 2: ‘ There have been some structural changes in the business this week, and my role was impacted’.

read more
The CHAMPION Growth Mindset Process
The CHAMPION Growth Mindset Process

A Growth Mindset is vital for success in today’s fast changing, disrupted workplace. To put a growth mindset into practice so it becomes a habit, I developed my CHAMPION process. I have used this process to achieve in several start up’s & numerous business ventures or career changes that necessitated me to make a change and up skill over the past few years.

read more

#possibility

RobHartnett_Icon_512x512_8

Free Download

Please enter your name and email address to access this free download. You will be subscribing to receive relevant news and updates from us but can unsubscribe at any time.

Success!

RobHartnett_Icon_512x512_8

Free Download

Please enter your name and email address to access this free download. You will be subscribing to receive relevant news and updates from us but can unsubscribe at any time.

Success!

RobHartnett_Icon_512x512_8

Free Download

Please enter your name and email address to access this free download. You will be subscribing to receive relevant news and updates from us but can unsubscribe at any time.

Success!

RobHartnett_Icon_512x512_8

Free Download

Please enter your name and email address to access this free download. You will be subscribing to receive relevant news and updates from us but can unsubscribe at any time.

Success!

RobHartnett_Icon_512x512_8

Free Download

Please enter your name and email address to access this free download. You will be subscribing to receive relevant news and updates from us but can unsubscribe at any time.

Success!

RobHartnett_Icon_512x512_8

Free Download

Please enter your name and email address to access this free download. You will be subscribing to receive relevant news and updates from us but can unsubscribe at any time.

Success!

RobHartnett_Icon_512x512_8

Free Download

Please enter your name and email address to access this free download. You will be subscribing to receive relevant news and updates from us but can unsubscribe at any time.

Success!

RobHartnett_Icon_512x512_8

Free Download

Please enter your name and email address to access this free download. You will be subscribing to receive relevant news and updates from us but can unsubscribe at any time.

Success!

RobHartnett_Icon_512x512_8

Free Download

Please enter your name and email address to access this free download. You will be subscribing to receive relevant news and updates from us but can unsubscribe at any time.

Success!

RobHartnett_Icon_512x512_8

Free Download

Please enter your name and email address to access this free download. You will be subscribing to receive relevant news and updates from us but can unsubscribe at any time.

Success!

Share This